BLACK MONDAY 2008: Foreclosure Apocalypse?
Dude, that’s not the finger I’m feeling like giving here…
…
Okay. "Black Monday" already happened, in the 80’s and then also back in the 20’s according to some slang-artists, but one of the attorneys I work with gave this last Monday (July 14 2008) the name, and it seems to have stuck. You could also call it "Screw Everybody We’re Foreclosing On You All" Monday, if you’re so inclined.
Here’s what happened, and pardon me if I sound a little frantic, but I feel a bit like Cassandra here; I’m freaking out about this but by and large, most people don’t seem to realize it happened. Most people only know one or two people involved in mortgage negotiations, so they didn’t see the coordinated collapse that I saw.
In a nutshell, what happened is that Monday morning, all the major mortgage banks in the U.S. issued some kind of order or decree, that they would cease conducting any kind of workouts or negotiations with borrowers, and instead foreclose on every home they could.
I know this because the nonprofit I work for is a sort of hub that helps people understand their options and take steps to avoid foreclosure. That means that I’m in regular communication with, among other people, brokers and lawyers who are trying to help people who have problems with their mortgages and need to negotiate with their mortgage companies; as well as individuals who are trying to work things out themselves.
Mortgage negotiations are absolutely critical…
Because mortgage problems are very, very often related to bad loans whose payments are increasing, or to properties whose values are now way under the value of the mortgage, or that have other problems like job losses or illness to deal with, helping people with mortgages often means contacting the lender and getting them to make a change to your mortgage so someone doesn’t lose their home. They may change it from an adjustable to a fixed loan; lower your interest rate; forgive a late payment or two; or something like that. These "mortgage workouts" are not only common, but they are the accepted way for borrowers to handle problems with their mortgage. Governments and banks alike have been urging borrowers to contact their lenders and "work something out" as the main way of fighting foreclosures for some time now. That’s basically what the whole "HOPE" thing the federal government "did" (if you want to call it doing anything) was. Unfortunately, the government neglected to give this solution any teeth by requiring banks to work with people, so thus far it’s been a game of incredibly one-sided negotiations, often requiring people who are already broke to get legal help (a good lawyer can negotiate better than you can) if they want to keep their houses.
As if that wasn’t bad enough, on Monday, the banks stopped making any deals.
Let me say that more clearly: As of 9 a.m. on Monday, ALL the major banks stopped making ANY deals whatsoever that I’m aware of. They even called off workouts that were in progress, including ones that were all done except for signing the papers. This is whether or not the borrower was actually in foreclosure yet.
…And now they’re gone?
A comment related to me from someone who asked the biggest foreclosure law firm in our area about it was, "We’ve been given our marching orders: No more deals. No more workouts. We play by the rules, and if we can foreclose, we foreclose." Apparently these "marching orders" came down from every major bank (at least) in the U.S. first thing Monday morning, and as of today, there still seems to be no movement away from this new "policy" of letting homes go into foreclosure en masse, with no way out whatsoever for troubled homeowners.
One of the attorneys I work with was busy negotiating about ten cases
for us, and his panicked phone call on Monday afternoon was what tipped
me off. Then my company started hearing from people who were involved
in their own negotiations, every one of them with a story about how the
bank called them on Monday and called off the whole thing. At this
moment, I’m not aware of a single negotiation that’s still going on,
with the exception of two that an attorney I know managed to keep alive
by convincing someone he knew on the other side to risk their job by
breaking the new rules.
That means….
Lost your job and missed a few payments? Pay them in full, right now, or lose your home.
Grandma got shafted into an unfair mortgage she should never have been given? Pay it on its terms (unless you can refinance by some miracle), or Grandma’s homeless.
Interest rate about to increase, making your payments jump several hundred bucks a month, even though your home isn’t even worth the amount of your loan anymore? Tough titties.
…And much, much more. I talk to and meet with these people every day, and up until this week, it’s been a source of great pride to be able to help at least some of them out, because almost none of them deserve to lose their homes.
Well. As of "Black Monday", people who call me can either A) have the credit score and means to refinance (which means they can’t have missed any payments, and their mortgage can’t be more than about 80% of the new, lower value of their homes, and they have cash on hand for closing costs); or B) pack their bags.
But WHY???
What’s really scary, besides the fact that nobody seems to know this is happening, unless they do a job like mine; is that if they do know about it, they don’t know why.
Since Monday, I’ve written to several blogs and called everybody I can think of short of my state representatives (who are next, if I can’t get some answers soon) to try and figure out what the hell banks are thinking. Nobody can tell me — in fact, everybody so far has been shocked to hear what I’m telling them about Black Monday. Everyone who checks up on it agrees that it’s happening — major foreclosure law-firms have their orders to cease negotiations immediately; and citizens not in foreclosure who were attempting to work a deal out themselves all got shut out completely. No explanations — even the super-huge law firms don’t seem to know why they were given these orders, or towards what purpose.
Thinking more generally for a moment, it’s hard to see what banks can possibly gain from this behavior: They lose usually at least $20,000 on every foreclosure, which is way over the cost of working out most loans with the borrowers. I don’t know about you, but I’m used to banks at least making sense — they may be evil sometimes, but you know how they tick; they’re doing what they’re doing because of the bottom line. But no-one I’ve spoken to can tell me how forcing millions of homes to go into foreclosure helps the bottom line for anybody.
One super scary thing that someone mentioned to me as a possibly explanation is that maybe the banks have gotten together and agreed to try a "suicide gambit" — basically threatening to eradicate themselves (which is what unchecked foreclosures would do at this point) if the government doesn’t bail them out (as it plans to for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac). This would be the most terrifying thing I could imagine — especially for homeowners — because as we’ve learned by messing with suicide bombers, there ain’t much you can do to fight someone who’s willing to die for their cause. So, although I can’t find the slightest shred of evidence that anything other than that is going on, I’m going to keep hoping as hard as I can that that isn’t it. If it’s anything else, some weird legal or tax thing maybe, then there’s a possibility that organizations like mine can figure out a way to negotiate with the banks that takes their "concerns" into consideration.
Hopefully I’ll have more information later in the week — I’m still trying to get permission from some of our executives to make the really heavy-dirty phone calls. But this is definitely real, and if it continues, (seriously, let’s hope like hell that it’s temporary), it could be the worst thing to happen to the U.S. — and even the world — economy yet.
…
…
By the way…please forgive my rather hideous grammar and typesetting skillz, and my tendency to babble lately. This week…all these people calling and me knowing in the pit of my stomach that I probably can’t help them now and can’t even tell them why…it’s been incredibly tough. Sorry.
P.S. OMG THE ONION RULES. That’s a million dollars in gold bullion worth of win. ;)
17 devoted students of Roshi accepted this page in 0.586 seconds without moving, or saying a word.
Could you maybe put links to any press releases you might know are out here, in your post? I’d like to send this information around, but it’d be good for the skeptics.
Thanks for keeping us informed!
Note that you’ve given the date as Monday, June 14 when in fact it appears you meant Monday, July 14.
Wup, you’re right — thanks! It’s been kind of a blurry month. ;)
From what I understand, there are many many mortgages that the banks can’t foreclose on even if payments have defaulted. Reason being that the mortgages have been onsold or sliced up in tranches and ownership of specific individual mortgages are unclear. Search google as there have been some lawyers writing about this. If banks try to foerclose en masse, this is the way to fight back.
If the banks can’t prove they are the holders of the mortgage, they can’t foreclose.
Check google for cases. This is the way people can fight back.
The banks only lose money on the loans they hold in their portfolios.
The latest data on subprime mods done in the first half of ‘07 are already back in default.
The argument that’s developing is that it doesn’t make sense to offer a workout on a property in a declining market when you only have coin-flip odds of having a long-term solution.
I just called one of the mortgage brokers who works with me and he was skittering all over the place - would NOT say that negotiations had been halted. All he’d say was there are FHA programs to stop a foreclosure, but they are very restrictive and you have to qualify for them.
It was interesting, more for what he did not say than what he did admit to.
This is scary as hell . I am not an expert by I know your right that banks would rather do almost anything than own someone elses house .Good luck finding out whats going on . Let us know ,if you can .I don’t trust thus banking %$#(*&
I have heard (needs confirmation) that there is an accounting trick that allows a bank to count the full value of a mortgage on their books, even if payments are missed, or it is going into foreclosure. If the mortgage is renegotiated, the lower value of the loan must be written into the books, causing a ‘loss’ on the bank’s books, even though they’ve improved their income flow. The order to stop negotiating is probably a desperate ploy by the banks (evidently ALL of them; that is scary by itself — they’re coordinating?) to maintain as much value on their books as possible. Since the banks have lost so much capital in this real estate mess, they need their books to look as good as possible. This makes economic sense, but, as usual, it has a terrible social cost.
Has it occurred to anybody that the banks may have realized that the central bankers around the world and the financial markets are in the process of seriously devaluing the US dollar? Could be that these foreclosing banks have decided to move their assets from dollars (or dollar denominated paper) into commodities, like real estate. One possible reason they’re not making this information more public is that if they are Federally chartered banks, their charters do not permit them to operate as real estate investors, which may be exactly what they’re doing. Just some things that occurred to me. I have no specialized knowledge or information….
B/S
There maybe something we don’t know about - and we can’t make conclusions like that.
The goal is to make sure the general public keeps their homes and keeps their mortgage.
Banks are rational. It must be something else.
I am in 3 modifications right now. I spoke to my banks on Tuesday and they were working with me. They did say there is such a delay in processing because the companies are moving their closing departments to India and are in the process of training the new closers. Please keep me updated
thanks
Since you don’t post any links where any information you have stated can be verified, I have to remain skepitcal of everything you have said. First it would be impossible for all of the mortage companies, brolers and banks involved in realestate loans to collude together on such short notice and I doubt if given a year all could agree on any single course of action. I think you are attempting to start a urban legend.As to your motives , I won’t even try to guess as to what sick purpose you would derive from posting such baltant BS. Obviously you have no moral center just like the majority of news casters.What goes around comes around so watch your back.
As there is no attempt made by the author to link any where to facts that can verify his statements I can only conclude that he is full of BS. First there is no way every bank, mortgage broker, lender , etc involved could meet on such short notice and collude such an outcome.I doubt that given a year you could get all to agree on any one course of action. This is a baltant attempt to promote panic from who have troubles and the author should be prepared to enjoy his time in h*ll along with 90% of the news media
Does that include short sales in progress?
If true, this is both a terrible thing for the homeowner and probably illegal collusion as well on the part of the banks.
But what proof can you cite ? You could be making it up or be quoting a bad source.
A possible explanation is that not only is foreclosing too expensive for banks, but so is a workout of the mortgage, which I’m guessing requires banks to immediately recognize the lost future revenue. At this time, banks can’t afford that hit to their balance sheets. So, the only alternative is something that apparently also occured in the 30’s: allow people to continue to live in the houses without paying the mortgage. Sure, banks will sic collection agencies on people, to try to harass them into paying something. But, the people will find that if they pay property taxes and HOA fees, they will be able to stay in the homes, at least for awhile. In this way, the properties will be maintained, and foreclosure costs will be avoided, as well as the hit to capitalization from a mortgage workout.
Banks are hoping (according to this theory) that their balance sheets will soon improve to the point where they can once again afford (!) to either foreclose or require some kind of workout. Until then, enjoy a free place to live. If I’m right, people who are current on their mortgages would be very pissed if they found about this, hence the secrecy. What would happen if even people who are current decided to stop paying their mortagages, I don’t know.
Where are the independent people, orgs, or news reports to back up this extreme assertion? Without confirmation, you look like some nutcase with a wild theory.
Just a guess - but maybe the banks realized that the same people they were doing “work outs” with were just causing them more trouble down the road (back to not paying their bills again). The other thing might be a rush of people trying to “get something for nothing” - i.e. trying to negotiate a lower rate or worse, trying to game the system by not paying their mortgage even though they could, just because they believe they will not be foreclosed on. It would be interesting to see if you have seen an increase of cases like the later in your line of work - but really how would you even know? I guess of the people involved are still employed, they might be considered suspect? Anyway, you are right that the banks do things for a good reason - i.e. to make money. Something must have changed that caused them to believe that this was a better way to do business. I have personally witnessed one person doing this whole “lets renegotiate my mortgage” game in the last couple months - I don’t think they ever would have even tried this if it weren’t for all the press about people doing likewise. Its a snowball effect, and the banks maybe can’t take it anymore, they are hurting bad, and have to try something different. Of course you know that different might end up being even worse…
But beyond that - should someone who doesn’t pay their bills deserve to live “rent free”? That is the old entitlement philosophy. Sure you feel sorry for them, but come on, if you can’t afford where you live, you gotta go! Maybe this will cause housing prices to drop 50% nationwide. Sure that would be crazy - but it would also just bring us back to the prices we were paying 10 years ago - is that so hard to envision?? People who rented instead of buying because they felt housing was overpriced will then be able to buy a place of their own. Overpriced things tend to revert to the mean over time (which also involves shooting way below the mean). The process would bankrupt a lot of banks though - hard to imagine - but is it really any different from what we’ve already been seeing this year? How many banks and mortgage related companies have already gone under? Hundreds. See:
http://ml-implode.com/
Tom is right. This story sucks. Reason is that co-ordination across many banks is impossible. Hell, even the left hand within a single major bank has no clue what the right hand is doing. I know as I am/have been working in major banks for 20 years.
This story is an urban myth designed to provoke the systemic meltdown everyone is (sensibly) worried about. The root cause of the mortgage crisis is the Fed setting US interest rates way below correct level. Interest rates are nothing more or less than the price of money. The most important commodity of all. And because of government monkeying with interest rates - there has been a property bubble - now burst - and stories like black monday do crap all to help!
I know this because the nonprofit I work for is a sort of hub that helps people understand their options and take steps to avoid foreclosure. That means that I’m in regular communication with, among other people, brokers and lawyers who are trying to help people who have problems with their mortgages and need to negotiate with their mortgage companies; as well as individuals who are trying to work things out themselves.
——————————————————————————–
I just spoke with Countrywide. They haven’t even heard this B.S. We just received a modification proposal for one of our clients this morning!
This sounds like complete B.S!!!!!!
I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around [the banks] will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs. Thomas Jefferson Letter to the Secretary of the Treasury Albert Gallatin (1802) 3rd president of US (1743 - 1826)
“Jeffrey Arnold” is 100% right.
Why does it seems like were being pushed towards a economic depression on all side is because WE ARE. Its is the only way for “Them”(for lack of a better word) to push the North American Union and the AMERO on the US citizens. Create the Problem then sell em the solution.
Perhaps many banks spontaneously called a temporary halt to wait for the bailout bill to go through.
It would make sense to hold off until you can get the government on the hook for the loan under the new legislation.
We say some of this when we tried to negotiate with banks for REOs.
We think the missing piece is insurance.
The banks aren’t losing money. They’re insured.
This is untrue. Don’t publish things like this. Your little joke has gone around the planet and you are creating fear. Take this story down or we will see to it everyone knows it is false and to not believe anything published on this site. If you are not part of the solution you are part of the problem. Be part of the solution.
Banks are foreclosing but the time lines are very delayed due to the sheer amount of volume and paperwork. It is always the easiest explanation folks.
And don’t think for a second that ‘if they cant find the note they cant foreclose’. You will lose your house playing that game
Found some more info:
READ: THE SUBPRIME TRUMP CARD: STANDING UP TO THE BANKS
By Ellen Brown J.D.
http://www.webofdebt.com/articles/subprime_defense.php
You had me going there. The Onion Rules!!!
Jammer
Having problems trying to post this… perhaps the “intelligence” (intelligence = stupid) operatives don’t want this posted…
OK people, it is easy to win foreclosure cases against banks.
It’s all in here as reported by Christopher Story:
http://www.globalanalysis.net/news/149_confirmed_two_countries_seeking_u.s._collapse
Recall that on 26th December last year we published an exposure of how these GSEs have been used for fraudulent finance purposes. That report also showed how parties suffering the threat of foreclosure can turn their situation around by informing the court beforehand that the underlying contract must be presented to the court, which the criminalised banks cannot do because the underlying contracts have been exchanged with a GSE for book-entry cash. SEE ARCHIVE.
http://www.globalanalysis.net/news/108_subprime_slide_that_masks_fraudulent_finance
READ THIS REPORT PEOPLE. YOU CAN WIN ANY FORECLOSURE PROCEEDING ANY BANK ATTEMPTS AGAINST YOU. THESE BANKSTERS ARE CRIMINALS WHO DESERVE TO BE IMPRISONED BEST CASE FOR THEM SCENARIO.
I’ll tell you what’s happening. The two banks that are in the process of going bust (Freddie and Fanny) effectively supply 99% of the liquidity in the market. The banks at the moment CAN’T do any details, because they simply don’t have any way of financing them without the deal going streight to their balance sheet, or alternatively, money being wiped off the nominal value of Freddie and Fanny.
Lets be clear on this, at the moment the nominal value on Freddie and Value is zero, that is, their liabilities are greater than their assets, they are insolvent. The value in their shares is because people think that the government will bail them out.
But the government wants to bail them out as little as possible, and so Freddie and Fanny must recover as many of their assets as possible. And that means reposessions.
The perfect economic storm is upon us.
Its clear to me why it happened (if indeed it DID happen). Ask yourself this: why would a bank (any bank) take a loss on a workout deal for a mortgage that Fannie Mae guaranteed if Fannies Mae is being given an unlimited capital infusion? The timiing isn’t coincidence and its not collusion. All the banks reacted rationally to the FNM/FRE bailout.
Everything you need to know to win any foreclosure cases the banks bring against you is here:
http://www.globalanalysis.net/news/108_subprime_slide_that_masks_fraudulent_finance
“Thomas Jefferson Letter to the Secretary of the Treasury Albert Gallatin (1802) 3rd president of US (1743 - 1826)”
FYI Kim, Jefferson never said that. Someone made it up and attributed it to him, even going to far as to create references which are real archives but unfortunately do not contain the quote! Its a fun quote though, but part of a hoax of sorts none the less. I have been seeing it thrown around far and wide lately, its on dozens of websites.
The people who went for these “cheapie” mortgagae thought they wouldn’t have to pay up at some time. I worked for a banking/brokerage firm and I am worrying if my disability pension will still be paid to me because of the losses announced. Poor granny who got “Grandma got shafted into an unfair mortgage she should never have been given? Pay it on its terms (unless you can refinance by some miracle), or Grandma’s homeless.” My mortgage was reviewed by my lawyer as required by my state law in closing the sale. S/He would have noticed that Grandma could not payup at the end of the term and advised against the sale! I’m am not a lawyer but a computer programmer. We need lawyers(SPECIALIST) at times of large money transactions. Your home is your biggest $ transaction.
This workout is just another way of helping stupid or cheap(no lawyer) people who should be paying rent and not a mortgage. They can’t handle their money. They don’t have IRA, no emergency savings account, or common sense that at end of interest only portion of loan the charges skyrocket. It’s in amortization schedule.
Basnks should redline these non payors and don’t lend money to those who are late paying bills, late on mortgage and have low income and no assets to fall back on.
I favor the banks, foreclose and get a non-paying loans off their books!
OK, I am in Washington with Bruce Marks and http://www.NACA.com restructuring thousands of mortgages and guess who is here. Fannie, Freddie, Chase, Countrywide and all the major players fixing loans on the spot. mmmmmmmm. makes me wonder if this is true?
Re your post of “Black Monday-July 14″
It is very interesting that one of the largest US banks -Indy Mac was closed on Friday July 11 by the FDIC and according to your report the other banks started to play “hardball” on Monday the 14th. Sounds like they were all afraid and were covering their backside rather than looking after the interest of their clients who really are their bread and butter. A very foolish, and short sighted way of doing business to my way of thinking. Go to Google and type in “US bank failures for 2008″. rather interesting.
The why of this is simple, it makes the banks and attys money. How? They put nothing into the deal, but in the end get the house and whatever the borrower put in for down payments. Plus all their attys buddies make a killing. Any perceived losses are claimed on their income taxes. The banks make out like bandits, why would they not foreclose?
The entire banking situation is a fraud from the start, they never lent their monies. They used your signature, your credit to go borrow monies as an agent, without disclosures and pass the expenses to you without permission. They banks have every motivation to foreclose and everything to gain.
Always ask for certified proof of the debts in a foreclosure. Follow the chain of the holder of the debt. If the ownership chain is broken, their claim is void. Just a few hints in a defense.
Hi ho, okay, terribly sorry for not getting to the comments sooner, everyone. This is the last week of a beefy semester for me, and I’m a bit buried — all my posts since this one have been scribbled on napkins and thrown up in seconds; comment answers require a little more thought. Again, sorry.
I’m going to tackle a few answers at a time, oldest to youngest. If I don’t comment on your comment specifically, it’s just because I feel I’ve already answered it — if you think I didn’t, feel free to say so.
peaknik and robert: I’ve heard both of those things, yup. Though in the case of using a failure to produce proof of ownership to cancel a mortgage debt, I think it’s only happened a few times. A lawyer I know believes that something would prevent it from happening in Michigan or possibly other places — the ones I know about happened in Ohio. Also, while I think it’s morally wrong to get out of a debt by catching the other guy in a technicality, I can’t argue either than banks, if the tables were turned, wouldn’t generally hesitate to do it to borrowers.
Ann: very interesting!
robert t: I don’t either, though I’d like to
dibl & Jeffrey: *very* interesting ideas; thank you for putting them up!
andy: I don’t think I’m “making conclusions” so much as writing about something freaky that’s happening at work. I really hope it’s temporary, or just Michigan, though the latter would piss me off, admittedly.
Tom: Thank you for being batshit on my blog; I feel like I have real legitimacy now. Also, I have never been accused of “trying to start an urban legend” before, so that’s something new and therefore pretty awesome. Have a nice day over in your reality…
Marge: It has in our office, but it’s only been a week and we’re still hopeful that this will reverse itself at least a little.
lucky: I’m not quoting anybody; this is just me, talking about what’s happened at my work. I have no information beyond that, and I’m not pretending to. The fact that all the banks we’re working with pulled back at the same time, and that a major-major law-firm’s representative told us that those were “new marching orders” from their clients — the banks — is pretty shocking to me, so I wrote about it. That’s all; no need to take it as anything more than that if you don’t want to.
(BTW, I’M CALLING THAT AN ANSWER TO ALL THE OTHER CLAIMS OF NUTCASEHOOD AND DEMANDS FOR SOURCES. THERE IS STILL SUCH A THING AS PERSONAL TESTIMONY AND SPECULATION, AND THIS LITERALLY HAS THOSE WORDS WRITTEN ALL OVER IT. KTHXWHEW.)
Gordo: That’s all very interesting…not sure I agree, but thanks for posting!
Wintermute: I should have guessed when you named yourself after a batshit AI. Could you possibly make less sense? We could get blue ribbon at a Dada convention!
KG: Your version of “social skills” aside, where are you located? Evidence that this is not happening outside of Michigan, maybe, would be very interesting to me. If you can manage to deliver it in a language other than Caveman, of course.
Kim: Great quote; thanks for that!
Osirys: I’ve certainly thought that before, yeah.
Red Candles: I’ve thought that too; and moreover, I hope so, because that would mean that things will loosen up, hopefully.
gridflash: I’ve heard that speculation from others, too. Who knows, but it’s an interesting thought.
Mr. Guano: Tom was impressive, and there are some other very strong candidates here, but just for sheer brevity and density of product, I gotta say YOU WIN THE BATSHIT AWARD. Dingdingdingdingding!
SFK: Er, I think that’s a bit overstated. It is true that they have to have a signed instrument in order to collect on your mortgage, like any other debt, and that all the buyouts and whatnot have resulted in a lot of lost paperwork. But it’s not a magic pill or an easy way out, and certainly not a guarantee. Personally, I only know about two cases where this has worked, and they weren’t in my state, so I’d call it interesting and maybe worth pursuing if you’re desperate, but not the be-all and end-all, eh?
thomas: good lord, that’s terrifying. Thank you for the interesting comment, but I sure as hell hope you’re wrong!
Gary: Also scary! Eeek.
Gordo: Just out of curiosity, can you prove that? It’s a quote I’ve seen attributed often myself, and I’ve never heard that it was a fake. Thanks!
Jack T.: You terrify me on a personal and moral level. Though what I really want to ask is, “Do you eat babies?”, instead I’ll ask, “Don’t you think that most people deserve some compassion and the benefit of the doubt?”
Moe: If what YOU say is true, that’s fantastic, and I’m thrilled to death that Washington, or your particular area of work, isn’t affected the same way Michigan has been. However, I’m made to doubt your claim by the phrase “on the spot”. We’ve been doing this a while, and workouts are NEVER “on the spot”. They’re usually just as difficult as putting together a mortgage, times at least 300%! Or did you not mean “on the spot” as in quickly–?
CB and Guess: Both very interesting comments and ideas, thanks for sharing!
One person’s comment on this article can be viewed at:
http://www.fourwinds10.com/siterun_data/nesara/news/news.php?q=1216595023
For that comment, see the 2nd to the bottom paragraph.
The announcments he refers to would be: NESARA (National Economic Security and Reformation Act), in the offing for over 10 years, purportedly signed into law but announcement of it delayed while “VIPs” steal all they can from the nation’s Treasury and seek to permanently halt the announcement.
Some info at: http://www.nesara.us
[Be wary of many sites on this topic as many are disinformation. That tells you there is something worth dissing in the public view.]
Articles on this and other topics at: http://www.fourwinds10.com
Excellent article. Thank you for this important information.
On the spot, qucikly, slowly and not at all. But loan modifications are happening.
The servicers that refuse to modify a homeowners mortgage wil suffer PR HELL.
These homeowers loans have been underwritten and verified that they can afford a decent interest rate and have the abilty to pay on their primary residence. You know, the borrowers that lenders say they are helping?
Those “people” who are suffering in their home that was sold to them as the American Dream will have a voice in Washington this Tuesday and in the media that will cover this once in a lifetime “homeower march”.
One more thing, what makes you think that the PEOPLE are not more powerful than the banks? Do you think that millions of people are going to continue to let this happen?
I would suggest that you and your non profit “lawyers” align yourselves with organizations that are getting much better results that what you stated above (300% more difficult).
The time is NOW to unite the people and put a stop to this lunacy.
Okay…I’m not really sure what to make of that. Your first sentence seems to be a bit of a contradiction, and elsewhere you seem to be insinuating that my company and my professional contacts are somehow at fault for how hard it’s been to get mortgage modifications (are we also to blame for the fact that they were all put indefinitely on hold last week?) — but we’re getting better results than anybody in this state, I promise. So maybe where you are is relatively insulated from the worst of the problem.
The rest of what you’re saying, about uniting people to, what, do the great Bank Reprogramming March…I don’t get that at all. I’m really not sure how people on the ground could change the behavior in the banking center, other than by alerting their congresspeople…which they’re certainly doing, but more is always welcome…what do you want, pitchforks? People (not “people”) are losing their homes, and for the most part they’re being very loud about how unhappy it makes them. It’s true that in the hardest-hit areas, more and more people are just giving up…and that’s scary…but nothing will change that other than to reign in all the fraud and borderline-fraud that’s been causing this mess, I think.
You sound accusing and your comments are beyond vague…I’m not sure if you’re trying to empower people or blame them. But I do completely disagree with one thing, and that’s the “PR HELL” that you think will keep servicers from refusing to modify mortgages…that’s simply dead false. They refuse to do modifications all the time — even before last week when they started refusing to do almost all of them around here — and it doesn’t impact them nearly as much as you (and I) wish it would. In fact, recently I was speaking at a town hall meeting given by one of our congresspeople in Michigan, and there was a rep from Fifth Third there, giving the usual line: “Just call your bank and they’ll work with you, blah blah blah”. When he was done, the whole room erupted with people crying, “But I talked to my bank and they won’t help me!” It was a nicely tense scene, but do you think it actually accomplished anything, on the state level or higher? ….Yeah, not a thing. I talk to people EVERY DAY whose banks have refused to help them — or who have offered “workouts” that are so laughable it hurts; one I just had today was an offer to lower the interest rate, but raise the monthly payments $300 AND raise the amount of the mortgage total by 30,000 … yet, I don’t see much of an outcry. Which is sorta why I feel compelled to write about it here.
Anyway, thank you for your comments.
-PD
for all who does not know Moe Beddard is one of the nations leading authorities on loan modifications - http://www.loansafe.org - check it out.
Banks are indeed doing loan modification. As a matter of fact Green Credit Solutions got a couple of dozen approved from the nations largest lenders.
Green Credit Solutions.
http://getgreencredit.ml-implode.com/landing-mm.html
Okay, rock on, if you say so. I’m glad to hear any evidence that modifications are being successful — but you’re not going to convince me that they’re coming easy, or quickly, or that all or most or even enough of the people who need them are getting them. The situation out there for homeowners, especially in states like Michigan, is critical.
Also, please stop with the links back to your businesses. This isn’t your billboard, and if I like you enough to advertise for you on my blog, I’ll let you know. Thanks.
Nimue: Okay, I mostly approved that because I thought the example of completely out-there, crackpot holy crap wtf thinking was worth preserving. Those sites made me laugh and cry *at the same time*. I certainly hope nobody reading this blog takes them seriously, but simply as an example of what humans will come up with, they’re worth looking at. (And I suppose you have as much right to cast a line for supporters as the mortgage guys do to advertise for themselves…)
Mod never have come easily. As a matter of fact, consumers will get bent over nearly every time if they try this themselves. Every single mortgage brokers out there suddenly thinks they are a mortgage mod expert and are messing the system up thats for sure. Many are also ripping off consumers.
There are a few companies out there who are legit who have serious relationship with all of the banks just for the purpose of loss mit and mortgage modifications. In Green Credits case, they not only have relationships and have met with all the banks but have an attorney network nationally. An atty is assigned to your case so they work the legal aspect while Green Credit underwriters work the loss mit side. The attys also have relationships. The banks really like working with the pros.
There are other companies out there besides Green Credit Solutions who do a good job. Even Moe’s site, which is dedicated to mod’s does a great job empowering the borrower and refers some great companies. But I really think that unless you are absolutely savy and know mortgage finance to some degree banks will habd you your head.
Non-profits do a horrible job to the greatest degree. Hope Now is not all its cracked up to be. No disprespect but the Govt is just not going to so as good of a job as a private sector for profit firm looking to grow business through referrals.
I called Hope Now as a test and their ‘help’ was to:
-carry a bagged lunch to work
-take shorter showers
-keep the air and heat down in the home
-take public transportation
etc etc
The never even got back to me on the mod case. Green Credit is getting literally dozens of these approved every single day and have a couple of thousand at least in process. Some go through quickly and so take 60-days but they build a case, support it with borrower documentation and legal back up and show the bank who they will save money by helping each borrower out. It works well.
Maybe you are experiencing some difficulties at your group but to say all the banks got together in a suicide pact not to do any mods is so wrong.
Make up for it by calling Green Credit yourself and talk to Curt who is in charge over there. He will tell you the story. Perhaps yuo can help people that your organization cannot. -Best Mr Mortgage
Green Credit Solutions http://getgreencredit.ml-implode.com/landing-mm.html