Comments on: Arm your daughters — With words.

By: Jakob

Jakob — Wed, 29 Apr 2009 15:24:52 +0000

puredoxyk:
I agree with you, except some little thing:
“It’s like when people point out that one time they knew a guy who was beaten by his wife. It’s not that it doesn’t happen; it’s that it’s SO RARE compared to the times it DOES happen[...]“.
That is a “bad” comparison: It is not that rare [that men are abused by their wives], since more recent studies say that domestic violence equals “husband beats wife” is far from true. The numbers vary, but it seems not unlikely that 25% of victims of domestic violence are men (averaging over all the 0%…50%) (see, for example http://www.csulb.edu/~mfiebert/assault.htm).

(on the other hand, I think you are right with “the number of times a woman lied and ruined a man’s life”)

By: puredoxyk

puredoxyk — Wed, 29 Apr 2009 13:35:26 +0000

I think the dichotomy can be handled like this: First, victims should never be *treated* like they’re lying, under any circumstances — the damage this causes, both to the victim and to all the other women in society, is too great. Cops, doctors, and others who come in contact with a victim (of rape *or* not-rape) need to be trained to watch their attitudes *closely* and avoid ANY hint of “you-deserved-it”. (This itself will be a mild deterrent to false accusations: the more nice people take you dead seriously, the worse you’ll feel about lying.) An accusation of either rape or not-rape that’s made officially should be immediately–before court or anything else comes into play–be accompanied by mandatory counseling for both parties. (Again, this will deter false accusers, since who wants to land themselves in counseling? But more importantly, it also provides much-needed emergency counseling for real victims, and will likely deter further predatory action from a real predator for a while–if you’re guilty and in counseling while you await trial, you’re probably not going to go to the dance hall looking for more action that weekend.)

The last thing that needs to happen is for the legal system to get a LOT BETTER about handling both rape and not-rape. It should be at the very least inadmissible to discuss the victim’s clothing, sexual history, or other such ridiculousness. In cases of “he-said-she-said” with no proof, certainly you can’t just jail the accused; that goes against our legal system. But you can put both parties in some heavy-dirty counseling for a while–again, to the benefit of both, whether the accuser is lying or not; and also a deterrent to a lying accuser — and put the accused on a type of non-reporting (i.e. does-not-ruin-your-life) probation that increases the penalty if they’re subsequently caught harassing anyone else.

I think the problem that stories like yours, where the accuser is lying, cause is mostly one of confusion. It’s like when people point out that one time they knew a guy who was beaten by his wife. It’s not that it doesn’t happen; it’s that it’s SO RARE compared to the times it DOES happen — because seriously, the number of times a woman lied and ruined a man’s life is DWARFED by the number of times a man ruined a woman’s life with rape or not-rape and got away with it — that using it as a reason why victims shouldn’t get the benefit of the doubt and access to the most rigorous legal resources is both flawed and harmful.

I think it’s quite obvious that if *I* can come up with good ways to deter false accusations while respecting victim’s rights, then surely the experts can too.

Thanks to both of you for your comments!!

By: Toad008

Toad008 — Mon, 27 Apr 2009 21:33:00 +0000

I’m always torn on aspects of this issue. I am very sorry to hear what happened to you, and I agree that there needs to be a better way to educate, and prevent that sort of thing from happening. However, I don’t agree with Nick’s statement “I believe we should believe in the victim, until strong evidence shows otherwise.”

I have a cousin-in-law who worked at a center for troubled youths. He was accused of sexually assaulting a troubled teen. The accusation was a total fabrication. The accuser admitted as much once it got to court. Just the process of being accused, even though it was throw out of court, and strongly proven to be a lie, ruined his life. He was released from his job before the court proceedings, and unable to get his job back afterward. No other facilities would hire him, based entirely on the fact he was accused. He was forced to change careers, and essentially lost all the time he had invested in getting his social work degree. All because some teenager didn’t like him, for his efforts to clean up her drinking problem.

I think something needs to be done to make sure all these true offenders are caught, and punished, but at the same time, I think there needs to be better safeguards for the falsely accused. That is why the issue is an extremely difficult one. It’s a very difficult thing to balance.

By: Nick

Nick — Mon, 27 Apr 2009 11:38:30 +0000

I’m very sorry to hear what happened to you. You didn’t deserve to be treated that way. I admire you for speaking openly about it. Here (in England), the law isn’t any better- ‘we’ (not bloody me) protect the guilty. I believe we should believe in the victim, until strong evidence shows otherwise. Y’know- care for someone who says they’ve been attacked. Treat them with respect and protect them. NOT treat them like a suspect.

I’ve a good background in martial arts. If you ever want to e-talk, you’ve got my address. I can give you some practicalities.

Thank you for having the courage to post this article.